Dr. Thomas Shields is the Director for the Center for Leadership in Education at the University of Richmond. The following interview focuses on Richmond Public Schools and suburban sprawl.
What do you think is the biggest problem in the Richmond School District?
“I think there are many answers, not just one that can answer all the questions. You can look at it from resources, that they obviously have adequate resources, but are in the right places to be moving the job forward? That’s some of the criticism that the Wilder Administration is saying, resources aren’t in the right areas. Is there waste in spending? There’s a resource question, obviously there are socioeconomic questions? You’re dealing with issues like poverty and issues of lack of education with parents, you’re dealing with truancy, teen pregnancy, you’re dealing with health care issues.”
“Some people claim that the issues start with prenatal care with infants, and that is you start that early with health issues, and then you have a healthier person in the classroom. When you look at it and compare urban education to suburban, it’s almost apples to oranges, it’s not even comparable.”
How do you think that the school district can solve these problems?
“Take a more comprehensive approach rather then just arguing that it’s resources. Some of the arguments that have been made by the Wilder administration to the school board are that it’s resources. Instead of looking at the system as a whole and some of the problems faced by the urban education system, maybe we should be looking at it as comprehensive. The testing component is an issue too. You have a standardized test that’s trying to fit for the whole system. So you’re testing people from suburban areas that come from higher affluence and not broken homes and you’re getting a good night’s sleep and your parents are driving you to school in a private car to an intercity area that is very different. Just by focusing on the test is not even a good way of trying to solve the problem of urban education. Also by focusing on reason that’s not the best way to say this system is getting so many dollars. I think it has to do with efficiency, but the next question is, ‘are the resources going to the right area and are they helping the children?’ Are we helping the children with these dollars? And if we keep the dollars at the same amount, how can we better help the children? Should money be going more into the classroom? Alot of money goes into the central office administration. There are some models that say that there should be no more than 60% of the funds going into the classroom and if there’s not, then there’s too much money going into the central office.
“You have to have a more comprehensive approach. Looking at it with social services, with crime prevention, with other social programs, maybe involve health care. It’s not one specific answer that’s going to help the urban education system.”
Do you think that a second audit of the Richmond School District would be beneficial?
“There have been so many audits of the school system. People know what needs to be done, the next thing is the will to do it and the action to go and carryout that will. People know that there are schools that need to be closed. People know that there is a lot of money going in, but it’s a problem with efficiency. So a second audit would be helpful. But if you have a second audit, are you going to do anything with it? There are many audits that are floating around city hall from both the administration and the school board, but if you’re not put any of those into place, if they are just going to collect dust on a shelf, what is the purpose of another audit?”
Is Mayor Wilder restricting the funds because he doesn’t know how to allot them?
“The executive puts together the budget, and then the city council appropriates the funds. But you have another body, which is the school board, which is the policy setting body. So you have three entities, really the money resides with city hall and where the policy resides is with the city school board. [Wilder] has dedicated as much funds as thinks is necessary, he actually thinks there are too much funds going into the school system and that they aren’t doing enough with what they have. He wants to cut some of the funds that are supposed to go directly to the school system through city hall. What’s happened is that there are other departments within in the city. The Richmond paper did a study on the other departments of the city about their funding. It said, ‘if you think the schools are getting too much funding, then lets look at the other departments in the city and see how they are using their funds.’ First of all, spending during the Wilder administration has gone up by $10 million. They found that the city schools were actually not spending a whole lot of money in comparison to other school districts. Finally, other departments were actually spending at a higher rate, using more money than in other areas across the state. For instance, the city police department was at number one spending at per capita dollars. In terms of people in the city, they were spending much greater funds, more money, than the rest of the jurisdictions across the state of Virginia. Schools were in the 30s out of a 120 jurisdictions. What is his perception of this? Some people say, ‘maybe he’s right. Maybe the schools are getting a lot of funds and maybe they are wasteful, maybe there are some efficiencies there.’ Then when the paper did the study, they said ‘well not really, look at these other departments. They are spending at a very high rate, his own city administration has increased funds by $10 million.’ I think that Wilder has kind of backed off a little bit, but he’s still demanding an audit. He can send over funds whenever he chooses to pay bills. What the school system had set up was that they were receiving funds almost on a weekly basis from the city administration. So what Wilder wanted to do was slow down and have them come to him for the bills that needed to be paid, instead of giving them any type of money on a weekly basis. By the end of the fiscal year, he has to give them all the money.”
What do you think is the root of the inefficiency in the Richmond School District?
“There are a lot of reasons in any bureaucracy for inefficiencies. The question you need ask is not so much based on the resources, it is: are we doing enough with the money? Wilder is demanding that they are getting too much money and that he sees too much of the city’s tax dollars being passed through the administration to the schools. Any bureaucracy has a lot of inefficiencies, weeding them out is a whole different question. Where would you start? Do you start within the city administration? Is it transportation? Is it too much staff in the central office? Are there too many middle and high managers in the central office that are getting big salaries?”
“It’s older facilities too; the inefficiencies result from a very old system. It’s demanding a lot in terms of maintenance. It’s an urban public system. If you’re in a suburban school system with high socioeconomic status, they are less likely to demand the public services that a student in the same grade, taking the same class will demand in an urban school system because of the type of needs are different being in an urban system. You can’t say, ‘look at suburban high schools with urban high schools and say lets look at the inefficiencies’ because it’s not even a good comparison. This is because of the differences in the students, in the infrastructure in the school, the difference in how people learn, the differences in their backgrounds and experiences that they bring in before they even cross through the door of the school.”
“There are arguments that too much money is being given to the central office and that it should shift into the classroom.”
Within Henrico County there is a lot of disparity between the schools, why do you think that exists?
“That’s pretty perceptive of you. There is a big disparity between west and east. Why does that happen? That is the million dollar question. What happens is as people settle in an area, they need to build a public school system. If you have a development that’s going in with 200 or 300 homes, you’re going to need to build an elementary school there. There hasn’t been as much development in the East end as the West end so the infrastructure is obviously getting older in the East end then where you see more development. When you build a new school you’re going to put in new computers and new desks, and hire brand new teachers. What you notice is the differences between West and East end. Northeast is where you want to look. What has happened that over time, African Americans have settled in that area from the city and they moved into the Northeastern section of Henrico
County. The same is true is you looked at the bottom half of Chesterfield. Is the question, well if they are blacks and they are poor, are they getting shortchanged? On some levels, yes, it doesn’t take a researcher to drive from the East end to the West end and say there are definitely differences in the schools. However, Henrico and Chesterfield have done a decent job recognizing and rectifying the differences between those two. Anyone in the school system would say that ‘we give as much attention to the Northeast section of the county as we do to the West end section of the county.’ They are not purposively slighting that community. It’s a market situation, where you are building homes, they are going to get the new school, and they are going to get the new classrooms. If all of a sudden you see a building boom in the Northeast section, they would get a new school there. So it does look that way and if you go deep into the numbers, it wouldn’t tell that story.”
Do you think that suburban sprawl is affecting the Richmond public schools?(Summarized)
In the 1970s, there was immense white flight from the city of Richmond into the West end of Henrico County. This was mostly due to the new busing legislation and integration in the public school system. When people move outside of the city, they are no longer under the jurisdiction of city hall. The city of Richmond is not part of a county, it is its own entity—this is what creates a problem. Soon after the white flight, African Americans also wanted to move outside the city, they moved to Church Hill and the Highland Park areas, right off Chamberlain. Even though they were also seeking suburban life, were they getting the same resources? No, because the members of this community were not put on the same boards as the white population in Henrico County and they were basically shutout of the political process. Now, in Chesterfield County, African Americans hold high administrative positives in the school district. This is not true for Henrico County—all of the top positions are still primarily white. This is not an old phenomenon; this has only started to happen about 20 years ago.
The suburbanization affect is not as applicable to Virginia as it was to Charlotte Mecklenburg or Atlanta. Virginia is one of three states that still abide by the Dillon Rule, which was originally implemented to check the legitimacy of local municipalities to eliminate nepotism. However, today this rule is only a detriment to policymaking in the state. Local governments cannot enact policies or changes without the approval of the state government. For example, in Oklahoma City, city hall just implemented a tax that at most 30% of taxes for public schools from suburbs would to intercity schools to increase resources. This is not possible for Richmond since the city is not part of the surrounding counties and there is not a large enough tax base to bring in revenue. Additionally, because of the Dillon Rule, the surrounding Richmond community could not make this tax allotment decision on its own.
Perhaps with this new trend of urban renewable we will see change of the face of urban public schools. Maybe as more affluent white people return to the city they will start fighting for better public schools.